One of the questions discussed at Learning 2.0 was this: Is knowledge delivered or constructed? Let’s take a look at it.
Delivering knowledge
Traditionally, the task of the educator was to deliver knowledge: teachers took pre-packaged data and dispensed it to learners. Teachers were active, if not dominant (dispeners) while students were passive (receptacles).
Obviously, data can be delivered. Books have done an incredibly good job of delivering information for centuries. Notably, however, the internet takes that to a whole new level: more data, and faster than any channel ever known. Almost any web search yields thousands of results, with text, audio, visual input, as well as discussion, differing perspectives, and so on. We suddenly have a much more powerful way to gather and deliver information.
In fact, professor Google is so successful as a source of raw information, that it now makes the classroom look like the wrong place to deliver lectures, hard data, etc. I would argue that the classroom should focus on student-centered learning tasks rather than teacher-centered presentation of information. (Of course, seeking information is a hugely important element of learning tasks. Students need to practice their searching skills, and this, too is doing.) Such an approach would very much square with a constructivist view of learning, so let’s look at that.
Constructing knowledge
The constructivist treats the learner as an autonomous individual who actively seeks out information/knowledge of his own volition and contructs knowledge according to his situation. The constructivist teacher facilitates learning (rather than dispensing it) through activities that engage students in tasks. (The bi-product of those tasks is the construction of knowledge).
To the constructivist, knowledge cannot be delivered. It comes about through the active engagement of the learner. And here too the the internet can ramp up the process by taking task-based learning outside the classroom to reach a global audience of people with the same learning objectives. The learner can be constantly connected with peers with whom he can engage in discussion for as long as he likes, whenever he likes. The Conversations section on ChinesePod is a perfect example of learners doing stuff with their learning: talking, question, discussing, etc, 24/7.
So, in summary: the internet ramps up the delivery of information, though information is not knowedge. Knowledge comes through active engagement with the subject and the classroom (when done right) is the best place for that. Once again, however, the internet can amplify the effect of the classroom by connecting learners beyond its confines.
Phew!
Ken Carroll
中文 Chinese
Michael Butler Says:
September 18th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Thanks Ken for wrap-up! Sounds like a lot of amplifying back and forth.
I’m wondering how much you consider it a part of the teacher’s job to insure that on the one hand “the” information is transmitted and received properly and on the other hand “the” knowledge is constructed meaningfully and in a way that is action orientated? Is one perhaps more important than the other in a foreign language classroom?
Lunetta Says:
September 18th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
I’ve always had a good memory and been good at hoarding more or less useful information. This has often resulted in comments from other people about how much I know, how clever I am, when in reality it only makes me better at playing Trivial Pursuit and Jeopardy.
To me this is not truly knowing something. To truly know something you have to understand it and know how to use it and that is not easily done just by delivering data. Let me give you an language example:
I learned to speak English in school here in Denmark. When I left high school I spoke it fluently and was able to go and live a year in the US without any problems.
When my Italian boyfriend left high school he was barely able to put to sentences together and even after taking more classes during his time at university he still had a lot problems when he went to live in the UK.
Why this difference? Leaving apart personal abilities it’s because of the teaching. In high school in Denmark we did almost everything in English. We read the classics in English, the teacher spoke in English,we discussed our reading in English and wrote about it in English. In almost every kind of lesson, whether English, Math etc., active participation and questioning is encouraged and a part of your grade.
I asked my boyfriend about his lessons in high school. In English they read the same classics but they talked about them in Italian! Also asking questions, especially those that question the established facts/truths, is not encouraged. The more you’re able to repeat what the teacher said, the better the grade.
My point is that you tend to get the most useful learning if the teacher helps you find the tasks most suited to your learning style and gives you the skills to navigate in the vast sea of information available now.
Bob Mrotek Says:
September 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Lunetta said:
“My point is that you tend to get the most useful learning if the teacher helps you find the tasks most suited to your learning style and gives you the skills to navigate in the vast sea of information available now.”
Lunetta, I couldn’t agree with you more. So many people take courses thinking that the teacher is there to put knowledge in their heads. I think that idea comes from the fact that for the first 8 to 12 years of school is compulsory. I think that the desire to learn and clear learning goals should come first and then a school or a teacher should be carefully selected as a guide. Unfortunately much of the time that process works (or doesn’t work)in reverse. I do some English teaching where I live and I do it for free. I insist on it being free. This really upsets some students who feel that if they don’t pay something they won’t have the incentive to learn. I always tell these people that they are really just wasting their time. Unfortunately, the decision to take a course often brings with it a burst of euphoria and the first or second classes are all chummy and yummy but by the time the first test comes along the euphoria is long gone and it is time to separate the sheep from the goats
AuntySue Says:
September 20th, 2007 at 11:20 am
It doesn’t work quite the same way online, though.
In a face to face lesson, after the students have been started on their own path of discovery, what does the teacher do for the rest of the lesson? Watch carefully. Not, in this case, to critique what the student is doing, but to look for signs of how the student feels it’s going - facial expression, body language, etc - and to be ready to catch them when they get stuck in a frustrating path or their joy levels need topping up.
You can’t do that online, and that’s why a community is essential. But other members of the community are at least as concerned with their own work, and don’t necessarily have the skills to recognise what another student needs.
So we have two levels of constructivism online. The obvious one is where there is a facilitator engaged to support and enable the learner’s own work.
The other is where the learner, possibly naive in the subject area, sets out alone with ample clues and, like a pioneering scientist, invests time in finding ways to filter those clues and turn the material into a subject area, which they can then set out to develop ways to learn, and then learn.
The fact that so many of us are willing to take the second, less efficient and rather extreme constructivist approach, has got to tell us something about the value of constructing one’s own knowledge.
Bob Mrotek Says:
September 20th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
AuntySue,
You are so right! After all is said and done, learning is a very personal experience and it requires self motivation and an open, inquisitive mind. The best thing that both “face to face” teachers and “online” teachers can do is to provide a sufficiently interesting and encouraging atmosphere for self development. I think that as far as online teaching goes we are still in the infancy stages. Right now everyone is thrown together in the same pot, “newbies” and “oldies” together. That may be a drag for some of the “oldies” and at times it can be frustrating and discouraging for “newbies”. I was wondering if in the future there might be such a thing as “online learning groups” where people of the same general disposition and experience level could stick together and share their successes and failures and HAVE FUN. I think there is some of that now on the forum but I also think it must be a little discouraging for many people to stick their toe in the water in the lesson discussions because they feel like people might pounce on their errors or disparage their comments. For example, you will notice that a good portion of the newbie comments come from advanced students. It is difficult for a mild mannered “nǐ hǎo neophyte” to interject. In addition, a newbie starting out is treading an already well worn path as far as the discussions are concerned. One has the feeling or having arrived too late. I think that a group or class structure might bring back some of that warm and fuzzy feeling that you get when participating as classmates. It can be lonely sitting in front of a computer screen. I had a lot of fun taking some extension courses in Mandarin at our local university. When it came time to learn about food, we brought some paper plates and disposable chopsticks and popcorn to class and pretended that we were eating jiǎodz. We used Chinese paper money that we made ourselves to pay for it. We made our own fruit and vegetable market with artificial plastic fruits and vegetables, etcetera. In short, we had fun TOGETHER! I guess one needs to develop a rather thick skin in regard to criticism and what other people think. In any case I think that you and I have acquired a pretty thick layer of skin over the years and at least that is something that we don’t have to worry about…like Alzheimers for instance
Henning Says:
September 21st, 2007 at 11:25 am
I am firmly convinced that the main function of the teacher is not to “deliver” information or “knowledge” or whatsoever.
Her or his main role is delivering enthusiasm.
And one of the most important qualifications of a student is his ability to become enthused. All the rest follows naturally regardless of teaching theory.
Bob Mrotek Says:
September 21st, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Henning,
Exactly! All I could add to that is “Amen!”.
AuntySue Says:
September 22nd, 2007 at 6:20 am
Yeah, spot on, Henning.
I think the one thing that online Chinese learning most lags behind in, everywhere, is catering for newbies. Every environment I’ve seen is optimised for a level at least slightly above newbie, and most of them improve enormously as one moves up in learning. It wouldn’t be too hard to optimise an environment for newbies, but it would be nowhere near as much fun for the teachers to build and maintain.
I see two forces at work here, one being that it’s easier to teach and engage learners once they reach a high elementary level, and the other is the interactions of the community which span levels and unintentionally tend to centre on high elementary or low intermediate as the assumed audience.
Perhaps the most important factor is the closed-eyes tendency to define newbies as “people who need to ask questions”, instead of “people who need to use what they ALREADY have in a way that constantly boosts CONFIDENCE”. This error can lead to an environment where you can’t play unless you’re willing to make up a question, yet you still don’t get the experience, the payback, or the confidence boost that is essential to fuel the learning.
I guarantee that there will be people who disagree with me, and that those people will not be newbies
There is a big market out there for an online learning experience which is solely for newbies, surrounds them with other newbies and material that is comprehensible to them, and provides all of the features and enhancements that other levels enjoy elsewhere, but keeping within their own level. Of course people should visit other more broadly inclusive places too, but as an extension activity, never as part of the copious amounts of core learning interactions which should challenge but remain wholly within the newbie’s grasp.
Furthermore, a newbie needs a learning community as much as or more than higher levels, and to feel fully involved in that community it is necessary to be spoken to, and with, never over. Bear in mind that many choose not to learn hanzi during their first year, and don’t necessarily have or want to use those computer toys that translate all the time. I don’t believe that kind of full community belonging can happen in a mixed level community that discusses or uses the language.
Bob Mrotek Says:
September 22nd, 2007 at 8:40 am
AuntySue,
I am very interested in the new Integrated Chinese Blog for some of the very reasons that you mentioned. Many of the people who post and comment regularly started with ChinesePod at the very beginning in 2005. I didn’t find ChinesePod until June of 2006 and as I climbed the lesson ladder I always felt that I had arrived at the party too late. Now I have a chance to be part of the Class of ‘08. About the same time that I started with ChinesePod I started taking Chinese Level I and then Level II extension courses at the local university. While studying with both ChinesePod and my Chinese classes I made progress rapidly. After the level II class ended, however, and there was no Level III I found myself losing focus and to be perfectly honest, the sudden change by ChinesPod from V2 to V3 didn’t help. I am trying to get focused again like I was before and I think the structure of associating with a class will be helpful. I will just have to wait and see. I ordered my Integrated Chinese Level 1 book today. Hey, I dare you to join me. Like we used to say way back in the good old days, “Be there or be square”
Henning Says:
September 22nd, 2007 at 9:38 am
AuntieSue,
as I posted elsewhere: I still read (good) textbooks occasionally - and yes: from the start to the finish. Linear. But only if there is a totally new terrain to be conquered - and with totally new I mean that I have not the slightest idea about what is going on.
Now that is exactly the situation a newbie encounters when making first contact with Chinese. An overwhelming world, a maze with a incomprehensible pronounciation, vocab that just won’t stick in your head, grammar that seams like a bundle of exceptions, crazy symbols which often represent different meanings and pronounciations, etc. etc.
So if I were a “total” newbie I myself would possibly long for a structured intro - beyond 7 lessons. This should include an overview about what is going on, what is important at what time, how to approach the language, learning advice, frame works and meta stuff like that.
However, not for long. The unstructured exploration path is usually more for me. And yes, you can do without. I never had that kind of intro. Maybe that costed me time.
But AuntieSue: Come on, you are not a Newbie anymore. You have long ago switched to our side…
Bob:
I am glad we have you back. I have always been convinced the step to V3 was right in every way, despite the undeniable pains that came along with the switch. But now it is much better than before.
Orlando Kelm Says:
September 23rd, 2007 at 11:46 am
I had an interesting experience this week. I’m up for what we call at the University of Texas “post tenure review”. As part of the process, other faculty members will come to observe my class. On the day that the observation is scheduled, we happen to have a day where the students will be recording video clips where they themselve perform certain tasks in Portuguese. The students will then add these videos to their course wiki, together with other items. The interesting thing is that I received a few comments about if it would be appropriate to observe me that day, because I wouldn’t be really teaching. In other words, because I wouldn’t be giving a lecture, it wasn’t seen as teaching. As you can see, it is sometimes hard to break from tradition. On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that my guiding the students to make a good video presentation will involve much more “teaching” that giving them a lecture.
Ken Carroll Says:
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Michael,
I think the balance depends on the situation. In China, people tend to have a lot of latent knowledge (though their sources of input tend to be wholly inappropriate at times. Either way, however, I think leanrners are much more likely to remain engaged if they are actually doing (as opposed to listening, for example).
Lunetta,
No-one coule sispute your examples. Tghis is why I find it amazing that teachers quite often teach subjects the way your friend in Italy learned. In China, almost all English classes, regardless of level, are traditionally taught in Chinese. Think about that!
Bob,
Glad to see you echo Lunetta’s suggestion to find what works for you. I guess I’ve rabbited on so many times about ‘learning on your terms’ that you know where I stand on this!
Aunty,
I’m not sure it is always better to have a teacher there guining the learner through everything. The act of developing autonomy is part of the process of learning efficiently. Coolllaboration can be just as effective becaue it enables the laerner to discover more. Poeple who discover knowledge thnd, in my view, to take possession of it more easily.
Henning,
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
It’s interestign how the discussion about social learning has evolved. I agree that we’re just at the beginning of figuring outhow this will work online. I can also tell you that we’re planning some significant developments in the realms of social leanring and brining groups together. You will be hearing about them in the next few weeks.
I am also glad that Aunty has kept the issue of assimilating newbies alive. This is a very valied discussion and I want to revisit it.
Orlando,
I spent many years as teacher trainer and observed probably 200 or more teachers at work. One thing I learned: If you want to know how good the teacher is, don’t observe him - observe THE STUDENTS. You could tell within a minute or two whether or not they had been well coached. If they were engaged, interacting with others, asking, helping each other, and generally being autonomous, then they were learning. Any teacher who onserves that on entering your class will know that there is leanring going on.
Ken Carroll
AuntySue Says:
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Sure, Henning, I’m on “our side” now. I was not talking on behalf of myself, but observing what’s around for newbies these days, and that little has changed.
Bob, so you and I go over to IC, creep past the whispers of “knee how mar war hen how knee nah” and sit quietly up the back of the class. Then in the next lesson they make the mistake of slipping in a de or worse a le, and that’s it, we’ll be off with the old “how else is it used oh that’s interesting because it’s also used these other ways and I’m not sure but I think it can be used in a supository clause instead of the preditory euphemism that is known to collocate with delta particles… let me quote a few stanzas where I saw it…” and maybe take the opportunity to express all this in 汉字 for practice, with a note inviting criticism of our inspirational little attempt at Chinese.
Or we sit there and say nothing, certain that eventually others will do the “helpful” (sic) work for us.
Or we genuinely try to help and not hinder, answering questions and offering suggestions and little motivational snippets that ooze with the confidence of rightness, reinforced by a faux modest “only a suggestion” at the end. But despite our heartfelt beliefs and best intentions, we really have no fscking idea where their heads are at, and we should leave them alone and let their teachers, who know exactly where they are at and have to make the repairs if they get it wrong, let them be doing what they know needs to be done. And when they talk, they should know that they are talking to real peers, as equals, and getting lofty advice only from those who take responsibility for their progress. The other stuff is good too but has no place in the classroom environment.
But yeah, I’ll go over there and try to sit qui… qu… ahem… quietly. Is that possible? Maybe I can? It can’t be harder than learning another language, right? Hmmm.
AuntySue Says:
September 23rd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Oops, Ken I hadn’t seen your last post. Yep, couldn’t agree more. People need to get the skills and permission to do it on their own, with or without collaboration with peers, and in a classroom that’s what the teacher is really supposed to teach. Remove the “teacher” figure and most will blossom; only the remaining few have to be taken aside and shown their wings.
But if you simply remove the teacher AND open the curtain to the pub next door, human nature will attract teacher-substitutes to do exactly what the good teacher was trying to avoid, maybe worse. You see, it’s not about what the teacher does or doesn’t do, it’s only about what the student does and experiences, which puts a whole new duty of care onto the teacher who steps away allowing others in. Getting the answers from the class upstairs isn’t collaborating either, and it’s an unreliable research technique. Collaboration is mutual discovery. People have to be taught those things too, before they can do their best at discovery, and we’re not all born with those skills.
Ken Carroll Says:
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Aunty,
Agreed. I spent the first 5 years of my career trying to be a teacher and the next 15 trying to undo the first 5. It sounds a bit Daoistic or something, but I guess the real lesson is that the teaching has to give way to something much nmore natural - learning. However, I would still use the term ‘teacher’ over the term ‘facilitator’ even if it is all about facilitation/collaboration.
Ken
LostInAsia Says:
September 24th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Sigh.
As I begin a new semester teaching at my university in Taiwan, and I meet my classes, where there are 64 students staring at me for their required English speaking and listening lab, and they’re all in rigid desks and there’s no room to get up or even room for me to walk to see more than the handful of students on the one aisle…
You do what you can, of course, and there’s still decent work that can be done in a classroom like that, but I so often find discussions like this assume a pretty darn good class situation that many teachers just don’t have.
Discussions like this are fascinating, but I wish I could somehow find ways to apply the ideas and theory to big classes.
(Fortunately I also have some “small” classes of 30, and one fantastic class of 10, where I can feel more like a facilitator and less like a traffic police officer.)
AuntySue Says:
September 25th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
But wait, you might still have something good to work with there. Humour me, look on the bright side for a sec.
You have 64 students in a room, so all you can do is stand up the front and yell at them and wave your arms. They’re not going to walk out knowing much more than when they came in, no matter what you do. Fine, that’s obvious, but don’t worry, it’s not your gig, it’s theirs.
So let’s look at the students. These are people who accept, assume, that they have to spend a lot of their own time learning, and they’re in the habit of doing that. They have to sit like sardines for the length of the session, and only when it’s over can they go off and do their real learning. They know that, they’ve lived it their whole lives. Learning is a personal responsibility that they take in large quantities.
Starting to sound familiar? Yes what you already have there has a lot of potential for independent learning, punctuated with the classroom experience where they might get core snippets, answers to tricky questions, and a series of goals that will help them to cover the curriculum. In fact, I can’t imagine any way to make learning happen in those conditions other than by guided discovery!
The problem, of course, is the background of the students. They don’t know how to do it. They don’t know that they’re allowed to do it. They probably cannot conceive of a learning experience that’s fun being effective, or a knowledgeable teacher letting them make their own decisions.
That’s what you’d have to teach, if you want to fully exploit the circumstances that you have been given. If they can learn any small part of this idea, it will help them in their future lives, as well as in this humungous class.
Maybe you can’t do it, maybe you’d be tarred and feathered if you tried, but stand back and think about it, search tirelessly for elements you can exploit rather than eliminate, and you’ll start finding them all over the place.
Every impossible situation is the catalyst to some brilliantly effective alternative approach that you could never realise until it got bad enough for the solution to pop out. Usually it has to get extremely bad before that happens. It sounds like you’re nearly at that point already, so hang in there, exciting times ahead, and I wish you lots of good luck!
Matt Whyndham Says:
October 6th, 2007 at 2:20 am
Generally, I’m pro constructivism, but I think it has be recognised that there are situations when a situation will favour, for whatever reasons, the “traditional” teacher/student roles (which, if they are looked at carefully, often are found to contain a great deal of learner autonomy, enthusiasm-generation, critical use of resources etc etc). Good teachers have always provided much more than a stream of information, even if they were doing so from behind a fixed lectern.
TeachStreet Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 5:37 am
How to learn a language Online, and in Seattle…
Around TeachStreet’s offices, we often talk about learning new stuff and what the more popular learning topics are, including music lessons like Piano and Guitar, sports classes such as Golf and Tennis, and technology interests such as Ruby on Ra…
Dave Schappell Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 5:39 am
Great post, Ken — I’m probably much farther on the side of constructivism, including not only the interaction of student and teacher, but also students with students (both direct conversations, and indirect responses to ideas and brainstorming outside of the direct learning environment).
I look forward to future posts by you/your team!
Dave
Dog training Says:
November 26th, 2007 at 12:50 am
Very interesting… as always! Cheers from -Switzerland-.