I think there’s a continuum that describes ChinesePod learners, an axis that stretches from the visionary at one end, to the pragmatist, at the other. No individual is 100% visionary, or 100% pragmatic. Instead, we all tend to fall somewhere along the line. (This type, of classification was first used by Geoffrey A Moore, in his excellent Crossing the Chasm.)
The visionaries tend to be, well, visionary. They look for breakthrough products, with new and radical ways to do things. They like to be the first to discover stuff - new tools, such as ChinesePod, for example. They like the big picture and they have a strong orientation towards the future. They have a high tolerance for big, sweeping discussions, but may get bored with mundane details. They are more willing to put up with bugs in the system as long as that system is blazing new trails and feeding off their need for new and different.
The pragmatists tend to have a more present-day orientation. They’re not so influenced by grandiose ideas and their yardstick tends to be ‘industry standards’ and comparisons to what they know, rather than ’state of the art’, or maverick products. Pragmatists prefer steady and incremental change to radical change. They’re more willing to wait for a new feature for months, because they have a low tolerance for bugs. They tend to be detail oriented.
This is ultimately an individual orientation, but I think culture may have an influence. Americans, for example, tend to be a bit more inclined towards the visionary, while Germans, lean towards the pragmatic. (I think the Chinese are generally more pragmatically oriented.)
We have a healthy mix of both types here, but the early days of ChinesePod were more likely to appeal to the visionaries.
Actually, I’m not even sure that this stuff belongs on a continuum, but I think it might be a revealing talking point. Let’s hear from you. Which one are you? Where do you fall on the line?
Ken Carroll
中文 Chinese
Paul Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
I would have to say that I’m situated more towards the Visionary end of the spectrum. And observing most of the feedback since the launch of V3, it appears that the majority of CPOD members are pragmatists. Perhaps the pragmatists are more upset by “bugs” and fine details that they naturally will post more “whine posts” than the visionaries. Maybe you should do one of those CPOD polls to get an idea of how your subscribers see themselves.
海宁 / Henning Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I am deeply conviced that we all need are pragmatic visions, i.e. visions that work.
Isn’t the choice of words already biassed? Who wants to be a “pragmatist” in the above sense? Routine-loving, fixated on details, standardized? Maybe add: dull, boring, picky.
But I really doubt this dichotomy is really valid at all. I do not see how those concepts possibly describe poles or the same dimension. For me they are for the most part independent concepts. I think that a successful visionary have to be very, very pragmatic.
From my experience you are doomed to fail if you want to become a visionary in all aspects of life. One needs to find the time for acting visionary. The only way to get there is to become pragmatic in most parts of your life - because pragmatism also implies efficiency. So if the CPod service and its users have become more professional over time, of course implementing new visions has to be conducted very prudently. Those professionals need to learn efficiently.
Besides: For me a visionary is someone who creates a vision not someone who just consumes one. So the user base here cannot possibly act visionary - they just provide feedback.
goulnik (郭力毅) Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
A bit like the alphas and the bees in Buzz, and beyond maybe… I’m inclined to agree with Henning, I would add you can be both, at different times. Some innovators can be utterly boring and highly predictable in certain aspects of their life which probably give them enough stability to venture into unchartered territory.
I anyway find these dichotomies very artificial, continuums notwithstanding. This is a very Western thing it seems to me, you find examples of this everywhere, from the infamous 2 by 2 matrix (business school-think) to the good-cop/bad-cop model in TV series.
I also think it’s a un-Chinese view of the world. I certainly can and do hold conflicting views at the same time, am I the only one? But then I can tolerate a fair amount of uncertainty in many aspects of my life, many but not all.
For example I have no problem living with the radical changes brought by ChinesePod V3 and have no issue with the bumpy road, bugs, design issues. On the other hand, I quickly proceeded to re-build my own list of old/new lesson numbers, titles, links etc.
Fu Da-Wei Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Wow. Who knew that voicing concerns over crippled functionality were “whine posts”.
Like Henning, I’m leery of a false dichotomy. If I were a cynic, I’d wonder if were a deflection mechanism. It conveniently allows people to say: “Look at me! I’m not complaining. I must be a visionary, unlike those short-sighted embittered pragmatists howling and whining about technical glitches.”
For my own part … I was well ahead of the curve in seeing the mind-blowing potential that online resources provide for the language enthusiast. That occurred to me back in the early 90’s — after I had spent $50 for a single copy of a Russian magazine, then noticed real-world foreign language exchanges on Fido, Bit and UseNet. But I don’t shy away from the label “pragmatist”. I had some valid complaints and it appears most are being addressed. Example: There was a legitimate problem with iTunes truncating ID3 tag info and since the problem was on the Apple-side the CPOD team probably would not have noticed without a “whione post” or two. That problem appears to be solved. I’m moving on. Getting back to actual studying.
AuntySue Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I am regarded as a visionary, even though I don’t charge for unfinished work.
Lantian Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
The universe in a grain of sand
Sand thru my toes
A wonderous beach on a parched land
Who really knows
Michael Butler Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
I’m a visionary when I’m full; a pragmatist when I’m hungry; give me a free meal and I am extremely appreciative; give me a bad meal and I find it hard to compliment the cook.
Jordache Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
As a long time user, infrequent commentor, what is is with these whining ninnies? V3 is awesome. What does ‘Aunty Sue’ mean with her nasty little remark? Is she accusing ChinesePod of cheating her? If she feels so she should come out and say it. I’ve seen Fudawei’s negative comments here for days and there’s no pleasing him. I’d say, don’t worry about malcontents like this?
chinesepod Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Henning,
The dichotomy isn’t mine - it’s Moore’s - but I think you make some great points.
Aunty Sue,
Your comment kind of suggests that we lack integrity. I would dispute that.
Ken Carroll
shuwei Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
I feel no problem in being a pragmatist visionary. One should not exclude the other. (ok, a little more visionary if you take in account my patience with bugs.)
I truly believe you´ll fix the bugs, but I was annoyed too with some of them. Have you heard the “ri” sound in the table of sounds ehehh
AuntySue Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
I would dispute it too, one thing this place has always had is integrity. I just don’t think there’s one single kind of visionary, or that being a visionary (or a pragmatist) necessarily implies or allows anything else simply because the word is used.
When one doesn’t need to consider the costs, as in art, anyone can be a visionary. When cost or safety is the main requirement, as in medicine, visionaries must pre-work their visions thoroughly before implementing. Medical visionaries will appear to be pragmatists; medial cowboys will appear to be visionaries; artistic extreme pragmatists can calculate to appear to be visionaries. It’s not a trait, it’s merely an external perception.
When you weigh your risks according to the setting at hand, those names don’t matter in the end, and often the outcomes don’t matter that much either, because you’ve already evaluated the possibilities ahead. When you leap in with no planning and do something wild which you know will either change the world or flop but don’t care let’s do it, that’s not being a visionary, that’s being a cowboy.
It is clear that the risks have been carefully considered here, and it was a difficult but controlled balancing act, and if pressed for an answer I would say ChinesePod is pragmatist, despite appearances. But we’re talking about a visionary-pragmatist continuum in people, with implied positive and negative connotations, and doubt that the right names are generally applied to the right people.
Marc Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Jordache,
I’m on your side. I feel it is time to move on. V3 gives us so many improvements that I am gladly changing my habits. And for people who miss the first page of the old site that listed all the recent podcasts I would suggest that they try to organise this personal feed in Google reader. All the rest from the old site is still there and it has become better IMO. There is still room for improvement, suggestions have been made and I’m sure that CP will continue to act upon these user suggestions as they have always done in the past. And by the way, don’t let nostalgia interfere with our judgement, there where many things in the old site that weren’t so great! But we seem to have forgotton about it.
Cornelia Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Wow, starkes Stück: now we are labelled as “pragmatic” with the connotation “averse to (fast) change”… But all that has happened is pretty simple and has been perfectly summarized by Tom in http://blogs.chinesepod.com/20.....ent-111682.
That is a challenge even for Henning’s patience and diplomacy.
Yes, “visions that work” should be the order of the day.
It is not a question of nostalgia, but of sheer usability if I need to click on page “10,15,20,25,next” in order to get to latest vocab added. Same for lessons bookmarked.
I can live with workarounds provided there are some.
Oh yes, let’s move on and get these superfluous glitches solved, by all means!
pharmine Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I’m a premium subscriber and I always admire the rich contents of ChinesePod Archive, helpful advice from dedicated teachers. I can’t tell how much my command of Mandarin has improved thanks to ChinesePod.
Therefore, I’m really puzzled by the apparent lack(?) of professionalism you have been showing during this switchover period. This is not justified by the use of the word ‘visionary’ or racial stereotyping, if that’s the point of this article.
I would like to ask, how many people actually tested the preliminary version before the official release of V3? Kenta said in his blog that he did the testing.
Didn’t the beta testers report the commom problems that daily users of ChinesePod would readily encounter? Were they bewildered by the new-ness of the system?
Ken Carroll Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Pharmine,
Racial stereotyping? Now we’re into racial stereotyping, too????
Ken Carroll
Cornelia Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
I think Pharmine just refers to
[quote]
Americans, for example, tend to be a bit more inclined towards the visionary, while Germans, lean towards the pragmatic. (I think the Chinese are generally more pragmatically oriented.)
[/quote]
pharmine Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
I guess the word ‘racial stereotyping’ was a bit too strong. Sorry for that. I meant what Cornelia kindly explained in the above post.
Ron In DC Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I agree with others that the dichotomy is pretty weak, but I suppose there’s room for a visionary who breaks convention then focuses on execution later.
But I’m not sure this situation qualifies. Maybe for v1 or v2 would qualify, but at this point, hasn’t the vision been out there? There are copycats out there that confirm this, but you all have been the best at executing the vision.
Some of the commenters here are some of the most supportive learners of CPOD there are. And Aunty Sue is the most supportive learner there is, not only of CPOD but of other learners as well. So I winced when I saw her motive questioned.
I interpreted Sue’s comment a very different way. I believe there might be two models here. A non-subscriber might be more receptive to an open-sourced style of web development, limited internal testing in favor of member ‘bug hunts’.
But a paid subscriber might have a very different expectations. As one, I have less patience for a seemingly long-term transition. I really miss having Amber’s wonderful feedback to discussion questions. Or reading insightful blogs having to do with Chinese culture or language learning practices.
But I have faith that those great features will be back in practice soon. My philosopy is that I appreciate and trust that the new features are great, but I don’t need to know about them all up front. I can figure them out as time goes on. What really frustrates me is the interference of bug hunts takes up so much ‘air’ space.
Discussion forums have been so clogged with bug/feature talk and the forum topics have been so exclusively dedicated to the same. So I think the visionary/pragmatist dichotomy is much less relevant than the paid/non-paid subscriber model dichotomy. I really wonder how the feedback breaks down within it.
I do strongly believe that your business is a visionary one. But I don’t believe that learner complaints about v3 are inherently non-visionary ones at all.
rb
RhodyRed Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Ken et al, I fall into both camps depending on the situation. It may be a false dichotomy, but it can still be a useful way to look at the problem from different points of view. As a paying consumer I fall into the pragmatist camp - I want things to work easily and consistently when I pay for them. I also understand visionary thought - I started listening to Cpod in 05′.
You guys do great work, I flog CPod everywhere I go because it was easy to navigate and try out for free. And it is excellent. Without a doubt the best language learning system/site I’ve seen.
That being said, although I can see the vision of V3 and Praxis and think it’s really cool, pragmatically I don’t think it was quite ready for prime time. A public beta or a larger pool of testers might have smoothed out the transition. Or even allowing people to revert to Cpod “classic”.
You and the rest of the great Cpod staff are obviously working hard and I think most people’s frustration is of the loyal opposition model. Hopefully the problems will be resolved quickly and we can move back to the focus of learning chinese and even some contemporary chinese life (Love the saturday show).
AuntySue Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Ron in DC: But questioning is always good, everything must be questioned, constantly, and if it can’t be questioned it’s not worth your time in the first place. I believe that without question.
And don’t worry about Amber, she’s just on holidays, she’ll be back soon. Worry about Ken instead, he should be in bed at this hour instead of working.
Uli Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Pragmatic and visionary when it comes to what? I like being pragmatic when it comes to pragmatic stuff and visionary when it comes to visonary stuff. I haven’t been around for long but I started learning Chinese with Pimsleur 1-3, which I thought was really visionary then, but looks tired in comparison to Jenny and Ken’s dialogues. I have to tell you that I really like the product and for sure I would like to visit your factory in Shanghai and meet the ChinesePod Team. I’d like to do ChinesePod in German language. Good idea?
Fu Da-Wei Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 1:15 am
I just thought of something that struck me as kind of funny.
The first controversy I recall at CPOD was when they suspended the practice of emailing out lesson .pdf files. They actually had valid technical reasons for it, but that feature had initially been a selling point proclaimed in all the ads. Then, suddenly it was gone. Now, it’s back. But instead of sending them to you email account, they tuck’em onto your harddrive via RSS.
We’ve come full circle.
Hotpot Mike Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 6:33 am
AuntySue, I hear ya.
Paul, Jordache, Marc, and other visionaries. Enjoy.
Cornelia Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 8:52 am
I think the correct dichotonomy to be applied here is one of people, who let their expectations be risen by visionary promises (when no communication upfront about the actual degree of technical implementation is done - see Lantian’s excellent example about explaining) and those that do not take such visionary talk to literally in terms of delivery.
For example: grammar guide, exercises that are more useful and inventive than mere databased queries, pure-dialogue-mp3s as complement to full-lesson-mp3s.
Prez Life Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 9:02 am
CPOD Customer Profile: Premium Subscriber, 14 months
MP3 Player: None. Burn CDs.
RSS Feeds: None. Right click on the links and download.
iTunes Use: None.
James Theron Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 9:30 am
It is one thing to have a grand vision or even a good not so grand vision. It is quite another thing to successfully implement the same vision. So, congratulations to the Chinese Pod pragmatists for making this happen.
John Thompson Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
I’d be a visionary…
if being a pragmatist didn’t take up so much time.
敦禮 Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
請別罵我狗屁不通,可是我想撒嬌地抱怨一下.
If Jordache would look at all of Auntysue’s posts, he/she would realize that she, out of all the people who post on Cpod, bends over backwards the most to be diplomatic in her comments.(yes, the above post by Auntysue shows signs of pain) That being the case, Jordache’s message is the nasty stab. I choose not to be so diplomatic.
Whinning Ninnes? How about none of us share our critical thoughts. Then, lets see how Cpod grows.
As for this blog’s topical article: I find it just to be a mask for the present situation for our Chinese learning community here. The change over has caused pain. Pain for the users. Pain for all those Cpod employees who are slaving away at trying to make this new version viable.
Did it all just come from the top?
In the sports world, pain is bad. An athlete gets stronger and faster through stress, soreness, fatique, these are good signs of progress and growth, pain is bad.
In education experiences like fatigue, stress, even confusion can be signs of positive struggle with an item of learning. If pain is involved, the tendency is that the item gets put down and the learning took place, that being, don’t bother with that item any more.
You might be thinking, what kind of pain is this dude talking about? Well, that depends on the actual recipient of it, to each his/her own, but for me, its been mostly a pain in the ……… Caused by? Well for me it goes from my irritation that since V3 came out, I have barely studied Chinese. I have spent more time messing with the operations than actually studying. To the sense that I have that Chinese V2 was sold out for a Language Service using this operating system to wholesale a variety of languages. So, to shorten, I feel like putting Cpod down as a -pain experience- and moving on. However, I am a bit too stubborn a Chinese learner to do that.
I know the overall tone of this post is negative. Well, that’s where I am at folks. If you want to bother, take a few looks at pre-v3 posts by 敦禮. To me, it seems I had all but praise for Cpod. Since January, every person I came in contact with I rambled on about Cpod, sharing, promoting and praising Cpod.
To end with thought of Crossing the Chasm-V2 with all the bells and whistles of V3- that would be a healthy balance of pragmatism and vision. A blanket change to V3 and the trashing of v2 is just visionary, 盲目追求, run amok.
Cpod still has quality.
Cpod teachers are still as good as ever.
Jesse Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
I agree with the general comments: vision is a good thing, but needs to be implemented properly. Many subscribers are right now losing ‘learning time’ because of usability issues, wondering whether these issues are bugs or ‘visionary improvements’ they have to get used to.
AuntySue Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
OK boys, reel it in, thanks for the flattery but really I don’t need protection, so don’t get into any fights on my account or I’ll come in there and bash all of your heads together, ya hear?
Spades are spades. The article under discussion, way up the top there, is about whether or not the hypothesised continuum is at all useful, and whether ChinesePod LEARNERS see themselves near one end or the other. My how we stray from the point once we get going!
Prez Life Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
An insightful quote from Steve Bennett, CEO of Intuit, recently published in the Wall Street Journal:
“I think companies, to be durable and great, have to be great at innovation, and they also have to be great at execution.
“At the beginning, there was always this paradigm: You can be innovative or you can be rigorous. And it’s a false paradigm. You can be rigorous and innovative. What I’ve found here is that we’ve in the past few years launched more new products than ever in our history. We’ve had better reception in the marketplace. So actually, the rigor has made our innovation more successful, because we can execute against the great ideas.”
Clever Dick Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
A few observations about the characteristics of Visionaries vs. Pragmatists from a CPOD learning perspective:
Pragmatists are:
* Sticklers for details, their world shuts down if they can’t see a lesson number with a download file
* Heavily reliant on technology, using it as a crutch, they are slaves to their IPODS and plecodict software
* Anal retentive when it comes to a study routine…they would be totally lost without that Calendar with the scheduled lesson dates
* Memorize and write Chinese characters ad nauseum and then can’t figure out why they struggle with their spoken Chinese
* Often are employed as Accountants or IT professionals or end up in prison
Visionaries are:
* True leaders of the world who can see the big picture, for example, Jesus
* Accept and embrace change as a necessary part of the learning environment. In fact they often lead change and propose broad sweeping concepts such as found in V3.
* Are extremely “plastic” and flexible when it comes to learning language. Their brains have evolved a separate lobe that employs multi-task processing to enable them to jump from “Newbie” to “Advanced” learner in a matter of a few days, like Steve Kaufmann and Da Shan and Ken and Jenny.
* Refrain from posting copious, detailed and often irrelevant feedback (in English) on the CPOD website that is critical of V3.
* Wish that the pragmatists would stop the whining and just “get with the program”.
Fu Da-Wei Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
So … I go to my visionary used car dealer and tell him: “Hey, that Pontiac you sold me has a broken blinker.” He spits on the ground and snorts “Not another whiner! Ain’t you that accountant from the prison? You pragmatists are all alike. So your turning signal is broken … wah-wah-wah. Embrace the change! Everyone knows that all change is always good. You shouldn’t be so reliant on technology. Think of how beneficial it will be to use hand-signals. It forces you to concentrate on your driving more. And it’s good aerobic exercise. What’s the matter with you? You have something against exercise? Sheesh! One little problem and your world shuts down. Just don’t drive anywhere you’ll have to make a turn and you’ll be fine. Get with the program, Mac”.
Richard Sharpe Says:
April 21st, 2007 at 12:27 am
While Ken was perhaps a little obviously manipulative in attempted downplaying of the issues, I personally see the problems as growing pains.
When organizations become (unexpectedly) successful, they all too often underestimate the effort required to keep up with their customers, especially if the team has not previously had experience in a high growth environment.
I see what is happening as positive and I hope that ChinesePOD learns from the experience and that we will see more content from them in the future. It certainly looks like I will continue to be able to use my subscription for the rest of the year and could probably be persuaded to pursue (:-) another year of learning.
Of course, criticism should always be voiced when it is due lest ChinesePod becomes complacent. I certainly liked the understated dig that AuntieSue got in. Ken, don’t take it so personally, it’s an Australian thing.
MikeKu Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 am
I’d classify myself as closer to a Visionary than a Pragmatist, which makes sense given how much Canadians have in common with Americans.
I think the Tiger Woods analogy is a good one and does hold. True, Tiger not be paid by us but his swing coach is paid by Tiger. Tiger’s big picture was not just to be “the world’s #1 golfer” but the “greatest golfer of all time” - his swing retrenching may just have allowed him to take the next big step forward and do that. So if my big picture is “to achieve strong Chinese language competency in the most efficient and enjoyable way possible”, the question is whether v3 helps me achieve that. Achieving my Chinese goals will take hundreds of hours more. If spending a few hours to ramp up my knowledge of v3 shaves dozens of hours in time savings down the road, then it’s well worth it. If v3 turns out to be “change for the sake of change” and causes short-term muddle with no discernible long-term edge, then it wasn’t worth it.
Which leads to the question of whether CPod has earned our trust over the past several months as our “swing coach”. That’s a personal question that each will have to answer for themselves. For me personally, they have, so far - until if and when they let me down. They are experienced in the field, they have built a database of hundreds of interesting lessons, they have a dedicated team that has proven to be responsive, they have an obvious love of learning & teaching. While I will not have “blind faith” in their ability, they have certainly done enough for me to go into v3 with an open mind and a bias towards thinking that it will be worthwhile.
As for the evil conspiracy theorists who charge that this is all some business scheming or profit-driven plot by ChinesePod, I think it’s hogwash. Putting aside the fact that anything that would strengthen the business model of ChinesePod will likely benefit the casual user (just as business class air travelers subsidize economy class travelers), there’s plenty of proof to me that ChinesePod isn’t interested ONLY in the bottom line - does Ken make money directly from this free blog, does John make money directly from Sinoplice blog, do you think that the ChinesePod location in Shanghai is filled with Mercedes in the parking lot and expensive artwork on the walls ( I was there 10 days ago and trust me, it’s not)?
If I could make a constructive criticism, it’s that ironically the communication surrounding the launch of v3 could have been better, in my opinion:
First, if feasible (may not have been due to server overload), a head’s up of the extent of the changes could have been given a few days in advance to give time to download lessons under the old numbering scheme, print out vocab lists, etc. Sure, we knew v3 was coming, but I for one did not expect the changes to be so significant.
Second, ChinesePod could have been on the offensive on the launch and put out a press release-style 1 or 2-pager right on the main page (e.g, “Introducing v3″) that lists some of the enhanced features and explains in a paragraph or two the thinking behind it. That’s what Microsoft or any other tech company does when launching a new version. Faster file downloads (Vocab section being a notable exception unfortunately), PDF transcripts with one click, the Pronunciation guide which I find brilliant, dialogue-only Mp3s, personal feeds, etc… there’s plenty to promote and brag about in v3. As it is, while it is possible to find posts about the good points of v3 elsewhere on the site, these posts are somewhat “buried” (e.g, in the blog, in the forum). While leaving one to one’s own devices to explore v3 and make up one’s mind for good or for bad is a grownup approach, human nature is that people will gripe more about things they don’t like (with some of those beefs being legitimate no doubt) than praise things they do like. It may not be too late for such a press release, and if I may I would suggest that mass-mailing such a press release to Internet sites, language centres, news outlets, etc. would be a great way and great time for ChinesePod to get the word out about its business.
hanyu_xuesheng Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:33 pm
@ MikeKu
“ChinesePod could have been on the offensive on the launch and put out a press release-style 1 or 2-pager right on the main page”
CP released about ten articles in advance about v3 in their blog. I think that was more than enough and had the effect that users’ v3 expectations were very high…
“…PDF transcripts with one click…”
Sorry, but my experience is somewhat different.
—
Question @ ChinesePod:
What is the reason for not offering:
1) direct download links to the HTML-Transcript?
2) to select in “My Feed” more than one add-on (Dialogue, PDF),
3) to select the HTML-Transcript in “My Feed”,
4) a traditional character HTML transcript ??
Thanks for an answer.
Michael Butler Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:46 pm
The Tiger Woods analogy is boring and can take us only so far but….
The goal of Tiger was to be not just great but legendary- truely one of a kind. I suppose in many respects Cpod has the same goal and I think that is GREAT! I’m in the rough cheering them on.
However, Tiger can afford to wait months (particularly because he is so young) to get a fantastic payoff on his swing. How long did it take to pay off anyway? Was it as long as a year?
Mike, or anybody, do you think, (and I’m really stretching this analogy) that we should be made to wait that long for V3 to come around?
This analogy is a bit farfetched so maybe its about time to drop it don’t you think?
Michael Butler Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Oh, don’t bother explaining that it won’t take V3 years to pay off. I’m expecting weeks, no more.
Auntie Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:50 pm
[QUOTE]
“ChinesePod could have been on the offensive on the launch and put out a press release-style 1 or 2-pager right on the main page”
CP released about ten articles in advance about v3 in their blog. I think that was more than enough and had the effect that users’ v3 expectations were very high…
[/QUOTE]
I would definitely have appreciated a brief summary of the type mentioned by MikeKu (thanks!). The poster’s clever response above that the changes “spanned about ten articles in advance about v3″ tells me something about the mentality of the people behind V3, and the users who are applauding it (good for you!). I hope that the ChinesePod team wasn’t counting on clients — new and old — to track and read a bunch of articles in order to be properly introduced to the wonders of V3…
Clever Dick Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Yeah, the Tiger Woods analogy is somewhat of a stretch.
A better analogy would be to compare V3 with “re-arranging the deck chairs aboard the Titanic”. At first, there is massive confusion and fear of change. But with Captain Ken’s assurances that V3 was built to stay afloat, we can trust his ability to navigate us through the stormy seas.
海宁 / Henning Says:
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:17 pm
New material is high caliber across all levels. HTML-versions & the dialogue-only-audio add real value for me. And with V3 first time ever the Vocab makes sense for me (well after they added the flush-all-button).
In short: Visionary or not. I got back to learning.
What about you guys?
Ken Carroll Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 am
Cliver Dick,
From here on, we’re going to concentrate on the learning. I’m confident that we’ve created a more powerful learning tool/platform/environment. Now we need to demonstrate that for anyone who may be in doubt.
Ken Carroll
John Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:31 am
1) The HTML transcript was meant as a temporary measure until copy and paste functionality can be restored to the PDFs.
2) That’s due to technical limitations imposed by iTunes (see the comments of the relevant blog post)
3) See #1.
4) See #1.
Clever Dick Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:53 am
Yes Ken. Just trying to inject some light humor into the discussion. IMO, the new version is a significant step forward. The upgrade to V3 never did disrupt my learning. (perhaps because i don’t have all the technical issues with RSS Feeds and so on…i like to keep things simple).
hanyu_xuesheng Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:43 am
“The HTML transcript was meant as a temporary measure until copy and paste functionality can be restored to the PDFs.”
That would be a step backwards.
The HTML files - together with a clever stylesheet (see posts in other threads) - are by far better than a PDF (smaller in size, faster to load, easier to use, and machine-readable).
Why a “temporary measure”? Forget the PDFs. Keep it simple!
For me speaking: I need the podcast mp3, the dialog-only mp3 and the HTML transcript in trad. and simpl. chars, Pinyin and English. And the vocab in machine-readable form. That’s enough for me - that’s Chinese “on my terms”. In the moment CP cannot deliver this in an easy way.
Thanks for your great work. Now make it easy to use - for us.
Prez Life Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:56 am
Yes, back to learnin’. The site is starting to become a lot more stable!! Good work, CPOD!
What has worked best for me is to delete any and all historical references in my account carried over from V2 (e.g. bookmarked lessons, vocabulary, etc.) and start from scratch. This is especially easy if you have been working lessons chronologically. Just start anew from where you left off with the old. And it is doubly easy if you have stored all the historical mp3s and pdfs you have previously worked on your computer. Leave them as is and start a new store for new lessons you study from here forward.
I’m neither a Visionary or a Pragmatist, but by accident it seems I was a Visionary Pragmatist when I made the original decision (200 lessons ago) to work them chronologically rather than by whim and fancy. I felt it was the easiest way to stay organized. I will continue to do this (rather than searching by topic), because I learn something new in every lesson, even the baby talk episodes. I just spend less time with the less interesting ones, and more time with the more interesting ones.
Paul Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:09 am
I also studied chronologically and have every CPOD lesson stored with it’s corresponding lesson number. I just add the next number in the series for the lessons that came out after V3. And so it doesn’t matter if the lessons are not numbered anymore since I rely on my numbering system. The switch to V3 wasn’t a big deal.
海宁 / Henning Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:27 am
I would also plead to keep the HTML-Versions. Make them a permanent feature of your service. The PDFs definately have a right to live - for printouts. For mobile devices HTML is the superior choice. And with Carl’s XML they become true Marvels.
Richard Sharpe Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:38 am
I would just like to note that iMandarinPod has now added male native speakers after I prompted them.
It is a welcome development.
Richard Sharpe Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 am
Hmmm, iMandarinPod
Tom Says:
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:16 am
Richard,
Thanks for the link. The content’s fantastic for the level I’m at right now, and I had no idea it even existed. I’ve always thought one of the most “visionary” things about ChinesePod was the creation of a community of users who feed each other with a continuous stream of new ideas and resources for learning Chinese. So far that community has guided me to over 20GB of excellent Chinese language-learning mp3s.
goulnik (郭力毅) Says:
April 24th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Yes, please do keep the HTML-Versions, so much more flexible and certainly the only real option for PDAs or smartphones.
Ningkun Says:
April 24th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Ken always recommends very good books:
I have read: Don’t Make Me Think
I will read: Crossing the Chasm
Fox Says:
April 24th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
@Ningkun
Moore’s “Crossing the Chasm” in one sentence:
“Don’t celebrate your victory in a market after becoming the market leader with pioneer consumers; as the mass market develops and all the competitive offerings have adequate performance, the new consumers won’t care about the advanced features that your organization is exquisitely tuned to produce, but rather ease of setup, ease of use, and low cost.”
When will we see ease of use and low cost @ CP?
chinesepod Says:
April 25th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Fox,
You’re seeing it.
Ken