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	<title>Comments on: The problem with &#8216;traditional&#8217; language teaching</title>
	<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/</link>
	<description>Learning on Your Terms</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9707</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9707</guid>
		<description>David,

I  listened to the link- this guy's tones are definitely suspect!  (I should know.) Despite that, I think the shows  have some value. The problem is that it all feels a bit random. I'm not sure you could base a program of study on it, but it is a decent supplment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I  listened to the link- this guy&#8217;s tones are definitely suspect!  (I should know.) Despite that, I think the shows  have some value. The problem is that it all feels a bit random. I&#8217;m not sure you could base a program of study on it, but it is a decent supplment.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9706</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9706</guid>
		<description>Comparisons

I came across this site today which teaches Chinese. http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2432/2006-2-8/68@295026.htm

It's a good effort, there are verbatim transcripts, there is a script. I'm sure they are sincere in their effort, but I hope Cpod never becomes like this! If people really want to hear someone with poor pronunciation reading a script, listen to Cam, bless his effort. If one wants a script that is so unrealistic, listen to this dialogue. They teach you how to ask someone to hold the door for you at the supermarket. Haha...have they ever gone shopping in China. Maybe their staff only shops at Guo Mao.

Anyway, Cpod--please stay the course. D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comparisons</p>
<p>I came across this site today which teaches Chinese. <a href="http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2432/2006-2-8/68@295026.htm" rel="nofollow">http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/24.....295026.htm</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good effort, there are verbatim transcripts, there is a script. I&#8217;m sure they are sincere in their effort, but I hope Cpod never becomes like this! If people really want to hear someone with poor pronunciation reading a script, listen to Cam, bless his effort. If one wants a script that is so unrealistic, listen to this dialogue. They teach you how to ask someone to hold the door for you at the supermarket. Haha&#8230;have they ever gone shopping in China. Maybe their staff only shops at Guo Mao.</p>
<p>Anyway, Cpod&#8211;please stay the course. D</p>
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		<title>By: Annie</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9705</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9705</guid>
		<description>Well, after my first demo I really realize how hard it can be to produce a program and make it all perfect. I think now I understand better about Ken and Jenny's effort, and I don't want to be too picky on their pronunciation any more. Anyways, what I complain about pronunciation is just a minor problem. I am more concerned with some grammarticall mistakes and typos on PDFs though. 
Also I am not happy to hear a weird woman's voice in some recent podcasts where Ken's role disappeared. :-( I hope they would put Ken back !!! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, after my first demo I really realize how hard it can be to produce a program and make it all perfect. I think now I understand better about Ken and Jenny&#8217;s effort, and I don&#8217;t want to be too picky on their pronunciation any more. Anyways, what I complain about pronunciation is just a minor problem. I am more concerned with some grammarticall mistakes and typos on PDFs though.<br />
Also I am not happy to hear a weird woman&#8217;s voice in some recent podcasts where Ken&#8217;s role disappeared. <img src='http://blog.praxislanguage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> I hope they would put Ken back !!!</p>
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		<title>By: mike g</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9704</link>
		<dc:creator>mike g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9704</guid>
		<description>I feel like having Ken there, giving it a shot, is like being in a classroom with a guy who is not afraid to speak. I think it makes the podcast what it is -- really great. Keep up the good work! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like having Ken there, giving it a shot, is like being in a classroom with a guy who is not afraid to speak. I think it makes the podcast what it is &#8212; really great. Keep up the good work!</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9703</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 04:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9703</guid>
		<description>About the whole pronunciation business from the University podcast thread--I have to agree with David.  From where I'm standing, I just want to learn some Mandarin.  I'm not planning to move to China and make a career out of public storytelling. I don't think having Ken "mispronounce" Chinese is going to hurt me.  Besides, Jenny goes through all the lines anyway, and since I know she's a native speaker, it's her pronunciation that I try to emulate.  I mean, c'mon--it's pretty obvious in the podcasts that Ken is Irish and that Jenny is Chinese.  Does that really get anybody confused as to the correction pronunciation?  I'll tell you what is confusing--one of those Chinese CDs I bought had two native Chinese speakers--one man and one woman.  They would alternate repeating the sentence, and I have to say, their pronunciations were way different on some words.  But that's the real world--everybody speaks differently.  I thinkit's good to hear how different people speak Chinese because that's what happens when you step out into the real world.  It guess it just goes back to what is the "proper" way to teach Chinese.  I'm not sure if there really is a "proper" way to teach anything.  If there were a "proper" way to teach guitar, then everybody would be holding the guitar like Tommy Smothers and well, there goes rock 'n roll as we know it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the whole pronunciation business from the University podcast thread&#8211;I have to agree with David.  From where I&#8217;m standing, I just want to learn some Mandarin.  I&#8217;m not planning to move to China and make a career out of public storytelling. I don&#8217;t think having Ken &#8220;mispronounce&#8221; Chinese is going to hurt me.  Besides, Jenny goes through all the lines anyway, and since I know she&#8217;s a native speaker, it&#8217;s her pronunciation that I try to emulate.  I mean, c&#8217;mon&#8211;it&#8217;s pretty obvious in the podcasts that Ken is Irish and that Jenny is Chinese.  Does that really get anybody confused as to the correction pronunciation?  I&#8217;ll tell you what is confusing&#8211;one of those Chinese CDs I bought had two native Chinese speakers&#8211;one man and one woman.  They would alternate repeating the sentence, and I have to say, their pronunciations were way different on some words.  But that&#8217;s the real world&#8211;everybody speaks differently.  I thinkit&#8217;s good to hear how different people speak Chinese because that&#8217;s what happens when you step out into the real world.  It guess it just goes back to what is the &#8220;proper&#8221; way to teach Chinese.  I&#8217;m not sure if there really is a &#8220;proper&#8221; way to teach anything.  If there were a &#8220;proper&#8221; way to teach guitar, then everybody would be holding the guitar like Tommy Smothers and well, there goes rock &#8216;n roll as we know it!</p>
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		<title>By: Brandy</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9702</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 04:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9702</guid>
		<description>Hi David,

This article might be of interest to you: "Neuroscientists have discovered why children excel at learning languages"
http://www.acfnewsource.org/science/learning_language.html

I work in a neuroscience lab (though not on language, or humans, so this is my gist from other people's seminars) and the general assumption these days seems to be that a child's brain is physically more "plastic" or flexible than an adult's, partly because they are still in the process of streamlining all of those neural connections.  It's a bit of an exchange, since as you get older,  you also become more capable of understanding abstraction.

That said, we also believed for at least a decade that we don't grow new neurons in adulthood, which is not true.  So consider that assumption a work in progress, though it does make sense experientially.

My personal experience in teaching my Chinese coworkers English pronounciation is that they simply can't hear the difference.  But neither can I when I speak Chinese -- really it's only through coaching that I say chi and qi differently, not because I can actually hear the difference between the ch and q sounds.  (And I bring this up whenever they complain about English vowels sounding too much alike...)

An interesting topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>This article might be of interest to you: &#8220;Neuroscientists have discovered why children excel at learning languages&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.acfnewsource.org/science/learning_language.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.acfnewsource.org/sc.....guage.html</a></p>
<p>I work in a neuroscience lab (though not on language, or humans, so this is my gist from other people&#8217;s seminars) and the general assumption these days seems to be that a child&#8217;s brain is physically more &#8220;plastic&#8221; or flexible than an adult&#8217;s, partly because they are still in the process of streamlining all of those neural connections.  It&#8217;s a bit of an exchange, since as you get older,  you also become more capable of understanding abstraction.</p>
<p>That said, we also believed for at least a decade that we don&#8217;t grow new neurons in adulthood, which is not true.  So consider that assumption a work in progress, though it does make sense experientially.</p>
<p>My personal experience in teaching my Chinese coworkers English pronounciation is that they simply can&#8217;t hear the difference.  But neither can I when I speak Chinese &#8212; really it&#8217;s only through coaching that I say chi and qi differently, not because I can actually hear the difference between the ch and q sounds.  (And I bring this up whenever they complain about English vowels sounding too much alike&#8230;)</p>
<p>An interesting topic.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9701</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9701</guid>
		<description>RE: “Is it necessary/better to have 100% native/correction pronunciation models?”

I was watching t.v. this morning (in China) and there was a English-speaking competition where the competitors were doing skits and such and judges would rate them. For the most part everyone had a pretty significant Chinese accent while speaking English. I'm assuming these contestants were already the 'best' of the best from probably a very large pool of candidates, so why is this?

There is quite a lot of English-language learning material here with native-English speakers, so what is it that makes the 'accent' such a hurdle? I imagine that their situation is very similar to learners of Chinese, so what is it that makes the 'path to good pronunciation' so difficult? It seems easier if you're in the target-language environment for many years---but it's not always the case, it seems also if it's not in your teens or 20s then the results seem to plummet quickly? It's the old nature-nurture discussion, but I'd like to hear peoples own personal experiences. Maybe in your efforts to learn other languages besides Chinese?

上边我用英语问， 为什么中国人的英语发音不太好，他们有很多老外的叫英语书，mp3.，也英语电影，所以他们应该容易能学，对不对？ 为什么我问这这话？应为我觉得老外学汉语肯定也有一样的challenge. 我也想一想我自己的学中文的方法是好还是不好。现在我爱用中文拨棵，但是很多人对说Ken and Jenny 的中文发音有的时候不标准。我觉得‘听’ 和 ”说“ 不一样，不过“发音”是什么？这么学好？ 大家 "What do you think?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: “Is it necessary/better to have 100% native/correction pronunciation models?”</p>
<p>I was watching t.v. this morning (in China) and there was a English-speaking competition where the competitors were doing skits and such and judges would rate them. For the most part everyone had a pretty significant Chinese accent while speaking English. I&#8217;m assuming these contestants were already the &#8216;best&#8217; of the best from probably a very large pool of candidates, so why is this?</p>
<p>There is quite a lot of English-language learning material here with native-English speakers, so what is it that makes the &#8216;accent&#8217; such a hurdle? I imagine that their situation is very similar to learners of Chinese, so what is it that makes the &#8216;path to good pronunciation&#8217; so difficult? It seems easier if you&#8217;re in the target-language environment for many years&#8212;but it&#8217;s not always the case, it seems also if it&#8217;s not in your teens or 20s then the results seem to plummet quickly? It&#8217;s the old nature-nurture discussion, but I&#8217;d like to hear peoples own personal experiences. Maybe in your efforts to learn other languages besides Chinese?</p>
<p>上边我用英语问， 为什么中国人的英语发音不太好，他们有很多老外的叫英语书，mp3.，也英语电影，所以他们应该容易能学，对不对？ 为什么我问这这话？应为我觉得老外学汉语肯定也有一样的challenge. 我也想一想我自己的学中文的方法是好还是不好。现在我爱用中文拨棵，但是很多人对说Ken and Jenny 的中文发音有的时候不标准。我觉得‘听’ 和 ”说“ 不一样，不过“发音”是什么？这么学好？ 大家 &#8220;What do you think?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Annie</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9700</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9700</guid>
		<description>Baaza.. isn't it this guy ?
http://www.myspace.com/thebazza     ;-) 
I don't know if he sent 999 red roses to Jenny as Valentine's Gift :P
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baaza.. isn&#8217;t it this guy ?<br />
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/thebazza" rel="nofollow">http://www.myspace.com/thebazza</a>     <img src='http://blog.praxislanguage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I don&#8217;t know if he sent 999 red roses to Jenny as Valentine&#8217;s Gift <img src='http://blog.praxislanguage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9699</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9699</guid>
		<description>Frappr on ChinesePod.

http://www.frappr.com/chinesepod#

And Annie:

http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&#38;id=381907

Baaza....check out Frappr.  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frappr on ChinesePod.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.frappr.com/chinesepod#" rel="nofollow">http://www.frappr.com/chinesepod#</a></p>
<p>And Annie:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&amp;id=381907" rel="nofollow">http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&amp;id=381907</a></p>
<p>Baaza&#8230;.check out Frappr.</p>
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		<title>By: Annie</title>
		<link>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9698</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.praxislanguage.com/2005/10/20/the-problem-with-traditional-language-teaching/#comment-9698</guid>
		<description>Hi David, 
very good on your new grammar ! :-D I mostly use Gen, so I think I am prone to northern dialect haha. 
As for Ting3 .... de , it means quite. You can add adj in the middle. For instance, ting3 da4 de, ting3 hao3 de, ting3 xin1 de . Xia yu ting3 da4 de , grammartically it should be xia yu xia de ting da de . People sometimes might not follow the grammar, like in English sometimes you hear She DON"T care. ;) Nightie.. , if you wanna talk personally, find me on Frappr--&#62; AnnieTC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,<br />
very good on your new grammar ! <img src='http://blog.praxislanguage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> I mostly use Gen, so I think I am prone to northern dialect haha.<br />
As for Ting3 &#8230;. de , it means quite. You can add adj in the middle. For instance, ting3 da4 de, ting3 hao3 de, ting3 xin1 de . Xia yu ting3 da4 de , grammartically it should be xia yu xia de ting da de . People sometimes might not follow the grammar, like in English sometimes you hear She DON&#8221;T care. <img src='http://blog.praxislanguage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> Nightie.. , if you wanna talk personally, find me on Frappr&#8211;&gt; AnnieTC</p>
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